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Re: VCU study: Big brains are smarter
Sat, June 18, 2005 - 7:55 PMHmmm. Still not very convinced.
1. If this data is "true", then why is in a journal I've never heard of (Intelligence)? This would be big news if there was substantial proof.
2. From the article's discussion section:
This study’s best estimate of the correlation between brain volume and intelligence is 0.33. The
correlation is higher for females than males. It is higher for adults than children. Regardless of the
subgroups examined, the correlation between brain volume and intelligence is always positive. It is very
clear that brain volume and intelligence are related.
Seems like .33 is actually a pretty low correlation (which, is even lower for men and children?) but I'm not really a statistics master. And, if the correlation was really that strong, why does the author explain the results as "very clear"?
Not disagreeing just pointing out some potential flaws.
I'd love to hear others comments. -
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Re: VCU study: Big brains are smarter
Mon, June 20, 2005 - 2:36 PMAlan, "Intelligence" is the top-tier journal in the field of intelligence testing. In addition, there was another paper in Nature Neuroscience showing samilar correlations. And, in fact, 0.33 is a fairly good correlation for these types of studies, although only the p-value can tell you if a particular correlation is significant or not.
"Neural mechanisms of general fluid intelligence"
www.nature.com/neuro/jour...nn1014.html
See, in particular, Table 1 from that study:
www.nature.com/neuro/jour...758_T1.html
Also, "Neural mechanisms of general fluid intelligence":
www.nature.com/neuro/jour...nn1014.html -
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Re: VCU study: Big brains are smarter
Mon, June 20, 2005 - 5:44 PM0.33 is a HUGE correlation, actually. -
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Re: VCU study: Big brains are smarter
Mon, June 20, 2005 - 11:09 PMFair enough. No question I'm in need of a little statistical education. So, explain to me how, in this particular situation, a .33 correlation is significant. It means, to me, that 66% of the time the size of your brain has no correlation to intelligence.
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Re: VCU study: Big brains are smarter
Mon, June 20, 2005 - 11:32 PM>> It means, to me, that 66% of the time the size of your brain has
>> no correlation to intelligence.
Correlations are probabilistic --- meaning that for every increment of brain size there is a good likelihood of an increase in IQ of about 0.33. Correlations go from -1 to +1, so you would expect a correlation of 0.0 by chance. Therefore, a correlation of 0.33 is very significant, IF you have enough data points. (For example, a correlation of 0.33 observed over three people would not be significant, but the same correlation observed over 100 people would be highly significant.) In the end it all comes down to how tightly the points are clustered around the linear regression of brain volume versus IQ. -
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Re: VCU study: Big brains are smarter
Tue, June 21, 2005 - 12:55 PMTo put it another way:
ONLY two thirds of the variation in intelligence CAN'T be attributed to variation in brain size.
Any clearer? -
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Re: VCU study: Big brains are smarter
Tue, June 21, 2005 - 3:44 PMAnd the relevance of the study is????
They will be able to predict that in 1/3 of the job applicants the "researcher" is headhunting for, their height will be statistically significant predictor of their IQ ?? Maybe in a sense, the taller applicant they get, the higher their potential IQ?
Which company would want to gamble on 1/3rd success considering how easy it is to have an applicant to take the IQ test?
If they love high correlations, boy they'll be happy seeing that there is very high probability from the above scores that the pen$s & b$east volumes will be "highly" correleted with IQ levels too...
as for the whole relevance of IQ testing for success in career, it is probably relevant for bellow 3.33 % of careers on the market.
This is yet again one of those studies that make one wonder why they didn't rather tackle the hypothesis testing correlation between length of last names and whatever, IQ's maybe I guess.
truly the extrapolation of IQ - volume is one of the funniest seen.. -
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Re: VCU study: Big brains are smarter
Tue, June 21, 2005 - 5:16 PMMax, what are you talking about? Ive never seen a paper that says height is significantly correlated with IQ. Please let us know if you have.
In studies like this the researchers subtract the variance associated with head size and body weight, meaning that these variables do not contribute to the observed results --- otherwise men would tend to have higher IQs than women, which is not the case. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: VCU study: Big brains are smarter
Tue, June 21, 2005 - 5:19 PMLow stature and low IQ both correlate with things like infant malnutrition. Not too mysterious, really.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: VCU study: Big brains are smarter
Tue, June 21, 2005 - 5:20 PMPlease note that it is not "total brain volume" that is correlated with IQ, but the brain volume of particular brain regions, such as certain areas within the frontal lobe. -
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Re: VCU study: Big brains are smarter
Tue, June 21, 2005 - 5:34 PMDaniel I simply read the posts here and briefly checked the paper at the vt site.. All i did was an extrapolation from brain volume mentioned above to the height. II'll try to check it out. I lack "respect" for IQ tests, so I am truly having issues taking study seriosuly.
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Re: VCU study: Big brains are smarter
Tue, June 21, 2005 - 5:36 PMI have my own doubts about IQ test as a general measure of intelligence. But they do at least measure some types of intelligence... which can then be correlated with brain volume data. -
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Re: VCU study: Big brains are smarter
Tue, June 21, 2005 - 5:45 PMyou mean like, they can predict the brain volume size with IQ test now (LOL).
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Re: VCU study: Big brains are smarter
Tue, June 21, 2005 - 5:49 PMit is much "safer" to simpy do volumetric studies then, and post the volumes on Cur. Vitae, next to the photo. ...
ill try to find serious perspective on the topic
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Re: VCU study: Big brains are smarter
Wed, June 22, 2005 - 4:32 PM> you mean like, they can predict the brain volume size with IQ test now (LOL).
Well, a funny thing about correlations is that they are reciprocal.
So I suppose this would be one possible application.
Using statistics to order hats for a Mensa event... -
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Re: VCU study: Big brains are smarter
Wed, June 22, 2005 - 5:02 PMLOL. that's funny. Prof. doing study would I bet start selling them stat.
I better open my cards here, my ex is psychologist.
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